DOWN

Written & Photographed by David Booth @hellbenderbluesmedia

There hasn’t been a lot to celebrate musically during this pandemic. Many industries have changed significantly since March 2020, and live music venues and the bands that they book were hit harder than most. Pretty much anything booked in 2020 was cancelled. The few festivals that did go ahead in 2021 played a constant game of musical chairs with the bands on the bills. Safety concerns, travel restrictions, and illness created an unprecedented number of cancellations and last minute replacements. One example of this was Psycho Las Vegas, in August of 2021. The lineup was in a constant state of flux as the festival dealt with the cancellation of every European band on the bill, due to travel restrictions. Even during the festival there were constant reminders that the pandemic was not done with us yet. The Skull, who were on the bill until a few days before the start of the event, were forced to cancel due to their singer, Eric Wagner, being hospitalized. Sadly, Eric lost his battle with covid and died in a Las Vegas hospital on August 22nd, the last day of the festival. Scott Weinrich, AKA Wino, who was touring with the Skull as support, backed out of the festival due to Wino’s objection to festival attendees being required to wear masks. One of the highlights of the festival was the supergroup DOWN, performing their debut album, NOLA, in its entirety. DOWN was moved into the headliner slot on the last day of the festival after some last-minute cancellations and adjustments. It was the right band for the Job. After all, this is Las Vegas, and there is no better Vegas story than a long shot that beats the odds. Three decades of DOWN has shown us that just because they’re Down, doesn’t mean you can count them out. 

DOWN is a New Orleans based heavy metal band, which started as a side project featuring some of the biggest names in the New Orleans metal scene. DOWN started in 1991, comprising of vocalist Phil Anselmo (Pantera, Superjoint Ritual, Phil Anselmo and the Illegals), guitarists Kirk Windstein (Crowbar, Kingdom of Sorrow) and Pepper Keenan (Corrosion of Conformity), drummer Jimmy Bower (Eyehategod, Mystic krewe of Clearlight) and bassist Todd Strange (Crowbar). Their 1995 debut album, NOLA is considered by many to be a modern classic and required listening for any doom or stoner metal fan. 

DOWN experienced a good amount of turbulence in the years preceding the pandemic, but that was nothing new for the band. DOWN had gone on hiatus between all of their albums and tours without any firm plans as to when they would reform. Their most recent hiatus, however, seemed different. Kirk Windstein had left the band in 2013 with the desire to focus on Crowbar. DOWN’s second bassist, former Pantera bassist Rex Brown, was a member of the band for the second and third DOWN albums, but had left the band in 2012, being replaced by Pat Bruders (Crowbar, Goatwhore). Despite the fact that DOWN had released an EP with their new guitarist, Bobby Landgraf (Honky) after Kirk’s departure, the band just wasn’t the same without Windstein. Due to obligations with their other bands and personal issues, the band went dormant in 2016. Discussions started regarding a reformation of the band, including Kirk, in 2019, in anticipation of the 25th anniversary of NOLA. The band was scheduled to play several major European festivals, until those plans were scuttled by the COVID-19 pandemic. Other than a local warmup show and a couple of livestreams, Psycho Las Vegas was the first DOWN performance with Kirk in 8 years. ANDIVERO writer David Booth had a chance to speak with Phil Anselmo and discuss their Vegas show, the legacy that the band had already built, and their plans for the future. 

DAVE BOOTH: Hi Phil, how are you doing, man?

PHIL ANSELMO: What’s going on? 

DB: Well, ANDIVERO is featuring DOWN for our next issue and I wanted to touch base and discuss the band. 

PA: Cool. Man, awesome. 

DB: I was there for the DOWN show in Las Vegas where you did the NOLA album and “The Seed”. You guys just killed it. Honestly, it’s one of the best shows I’ve seen, and I go to a LOT of concerts. You guys were firing on all cylinders. I was really impressed. 

PA: Wow. What a trip man. I appreciate that.

DB: I appreciate the show. You guys did great. One of the things I wanted to go over is how DOWN is at the point where the band is starting to come back together and look at possibilities in the future, especially after the show in Vegas. I wanted to ask you about the roots of the band. I’m curious what kind of legacy you see going forward. 

The times where DOWN has been at their best, all of you seem to be working on a bunch of other projects for your other bands. Is there something about DOWN that has a different and special quality when it’s not the main focus? How are things with the band now?

PA: That’s an interesting question. I think there’s a lot of confidence going forward into any DOWN situation cause it’s not brand-new songs. We know these songs and the bulk of any set we play is going to be NOLA. We’ve been playing these songs for so long, so once again, we have the confidence behind it. And on top of that, as individuals, I’ve got to say, just from my perspective, and what I do with DOWN, these days I’m concentrating solely on singing. I want to sound good. Especially on days we have livestreams. When you’re on a livestream you’re under a microscope. I just want to sound good, so I think it’s individual effort put in as well. When you know a gig is coming up, put in the time, relearn the songs, get your chops back up the best you can and by the time you get into the jam room the hard work is done. 

DB: One of the things I’ve noticed over the last couple years, when I’ve been to a couple Phil Anselmo and the Illegals shows, and the DOWN Las Vegas show recently, is the crowd reaction. Based on the comments online and the reflection of people I’m talking to at shows, there’s a lot of commentary about your voice. How it’s having a bit of a renaissance. How it’s stronger than it’s been over the preceding years. What is it you’re doing to get a better quality sound for the actual singing parts as opposed to just the screaming?

PA: It’s pretty simple. I’m putting in the work and I’m actually probably giving a flying fuck for the first time since, for the first time since about… like you said, over the last couple years. I could have always done exactly what I’m doing right now with my vocals, but my attitude when I was younger was that of scream/sing improperly and scream till my throat was bloody raw, and somehow that was cool, but you know, these days it’s cooler for me to sing them properly. Sing the songs how people know the songs and love the songs. I feel like I owe them that, to sing those goddamn songs the best I possibly can so yeah, it’s a matter of giving a fuck, that’s all. 

DB: It’s making a noticeable difference. 

PA: Agreed man. I can’t watch old shows of mine, especially old DOWN shows because I’m singing so wrong, singing so improperly. Especially for DOWN. DOWN has got a wide range of vocal stylistics, but finesse is emphasized when it comes to DOWN, therefore I need to have an open voice and a very warm voice so I can control each little style within the whole style. 

DB: I’m glad you said that about the vocals for DOWN specifically, because it’s something I was going to ask you about, which I’ll get back to later. I understand DOWN was originally something to do in your downtime. It was when you were all back in town. Is that the case?

PA: Yeah, of course, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be good music.

DB: Of course.

PA: Yeah, but you’re correct.

DB: I understand it was kind of your brainchild and went out from there. Do you remember when you first came up with it and who you first talked to about it? Did other people almost get tapped on the shoulder for the band then changed your mind and went in another direction or was it always the original five when you planned it? 

PA: It was so perfect. I’ve got these characters around me with a unique talent, each of them, and it just all fell together. I guess I spoke with Pepper first, bounced it off him, and he was perceptive to it. Very excited for it. I bounced it off Kirk and at the time it was Jimmy Bower, of course, but Big T on bass, Todd Strange.

DB: Kirk played bass on the NOLA album right?

PA: He did.

DB: He sounds good on it. I’m sure I’ve heard other examples of him playing bass before on his albums but he sounded really good on that too.

PA: Well, yeah. Bass especially for a rock band like DOWN. It’s kind of its own instrument. The guitar will be riffing along the way and then of course the bass could follow loosely then take off into bass land and he did a real good job. Did a good job mimicking the bass, because in his heart and in truth he’s a freaking guitar player.

DB: I like that he played the bass like a bass. You can often tell the bassists who are guitar players. They play it like a guitar, as opposed to the guys who keep the low end solid and anchor the band. Kirk did a fantastic job on that.

PA: It’s also who I was hanging out with too. When I was in New Orleans, I was hanging with The Slugs boys, at the time. They were the Slugs before they were Crowbar. I would always be hanging out with Jim, or Kirk or all of ‘em, so that part of it was easy man. And Pepper he just had this special love like we did of St Vitus and Trouble and Black Sabbath and that whole upper echelon of excellent influences in bands, so once I bounced it off Pepper. Pepper was living in North Carolina at the time. That’s the point I’m getting at. I was in Texas, Pepper was in North Carolina and those guys were in New Orleans, and we wanted to do it in New Orleans because we’re all New Orleans guys. And so, you know we’d pick those times. I’m sure you know all this but it was really like it didn’t take a lot of thought to choose the people at the time. It was very natural. 

DB: You’ve got three fantastic singers in the band. Other than “Beneath The Tides” and “The Seed”, in some shows I haven’t seen them do any backup or supplementary vocals. Is that something that kind of happened or is it by design? Did they elect to stay strictly playing guitar?

PA: I think because of the style of vocals we all have, individually we are dynamic, we are great, however together we sound like a bunch of cavemen yelling over each other. It’s really not the prettiest thing in the world. Minimal background vocals are fine by me, and I think those guys like to take the night off of vocals too. I think they like playing guitar alone. 

DB: There’s a different energy with Kirk and Pepper in DOWN. They work the stage a lot more in DOWN than with their other bands, and they’re no slouches there.

PA: No, of course. They’re not stuck behind a microphone. 

DB: The one that sticks out with background vocals is the DVD you guys put out. On that DVD, Diary Of A Mad Band, when you guys did “The Seed”, the video is awesome, I always found that song to be entertaining. The microphone was set way too low, and it looks like Pepper is going to turn green and yell “me hulk smash”. He looks huge in it due to being crouched down doing the background vocals. It sounded awesome with the background vocals. There’s something about that song I’ve always liked live but that version of it I think is one of the best things I’ve heard from you guys.

PA: Wow, I’m glad we got that version on the film because any other version on that tour would have been an atrocity. Oh gosh. 

DB: Happens to the best of us, (laughs).

PA: But hey man, on a professional level, CHRIST. Weak is what I say. 

DB: It sounds like you guys are on the right track with it right now. The band is sounding great. What did you originally have in mind when you came up with the concept of DOWN?

PA: You know, it was me and Pepper first, and there’s no way I’m doing this without Jimmy or Kirk. Those dudes were solidified in my mind, and big T had been jamming with Kirk for a couple of years, and I knew big T longer than all of them. Like I say, it was freaking natural man. You could say by luck as well it really just settled into place that first go round. 

DB: You guys wrote 3 songs on NOLA in the first session right?

PA: Oh yeah. 

DB: I’ve had weekends like that, but not very many. (laughs)

PA: Lucky man. Hot streak.

DB: There’s nothing better than chasing that feeling of inspiration. I find the quality of the stuff that comes out in situations like that is quite high. Good volume and quality.

PA: When something is fresh and you have a vision of the genre that you are going for, those initial songs, initial vibe, initial feelings that hover over the whole band in the practice room. It’s magic. Like you say. Magical days, lucky days, same thing.

DB: Everyone writes from what’s going on in their lives to some degree, but the first three DOWN albums feel like it was a poignant description of where the band was in those three spots. The first one was done when you guys had a recent big album out and were working on another huge album with the feeder bands, as it were, and then NOLA comes and it’s an absolute monster. DOWN 2 was kind of. You get a lot of the. Um. 

PA: We were wasted. We were annihilated and there was a darkness hanging over that album.

DB: Apparently it was sort of a black tar snowstorm from what I heard.

PA:Yeah, it was. Ugly ugly ugly. I would not suggest that for any lifestyle or anybody. Awful.

DB: But then the third album, Post Hurricane Katrina. There were a lot of references to not just water, but renewal, rebirth, optimism after the storm, as it were.

PA: Very traumatic times, all three records. Very vital times. 

DB: So we’re two years into this pandemic, which many say will likely be the defining historical event of our time. Are you guys working on new material, and has the pandemic and your personal lives impacted any writing?

PA: No man, we’re not working on things. 

DB: No?

PA: No, I wish it was a more vibrant answer, but we’ve been doing nothing, but that doesn’t mean there’s no irons in the fire. I will say between all of us there is an album we’ve all been wanting to do and we’ve talked it out, I’ve sent list after list after list after short list about ways to attack this record, so really I might be in a holding pattern here. I see Christmas, I see New Years, maybe a little bit into next year. I’m hoping these dudes get into the studio and track what they need to track so I can get to work. 

DB: Rumor has it that you guys were working on doing covers.

PA: That’s it man, that’s it. I’ve sent a short list of the covers I think we can do. Everybody’s chimed in. And I’ve been waiting on them go get fucking studio times, track these songs and let me do my thing after.

DB: Is there any plan for, not sure what to call them… The plague sessions, I guess? Are the covers that you guys are working on just a project to get warmed up to write more DOWN material? 

PA: Until those motherfuckers get into this studio. It’s just a dream. It’s something I want to do. It’s a great idea. The songs I have picked out would kill, so I don’t know. Like I said, I’m waiting on them. 

DB: Speaking of cover songs, have you seen the KISS my ass album? It’s a tribute album but one they sort of managed. 

PA: Who’s they?

DB: Sorry, KISS.

PA: Oh, what is it now? That sounds really familiar. 

DB: It’s called KISS my ass. It’s got Lenny Kravitz doing “Deuce”, Garth Brooks doing “Hard Luck Woman”, Anthrax doing “She”. A bunch of people you wouldn’t expect to do the songs, like Toad the Wet Sprocket doing “Rock and Roll All Night”. They’re interesting takes on those songs. I was thinking about that when we were talking about cover songs and DOWN. I was thinking about the songs DOWN has in their catalogue and how different treatments of them would be really interesting. Are there some songs where you thought “it would be great to hear “this” specific artist do any specific DOWN songs? For example, when I think of a song like “Ghosts Along the Mississippi”, and who would have a different approach, I think Anders Osborne would do an incredible job on something like that. Black Label doing “Beneath the Tides”. Certain songs that would come out in a different but interesting way with someone else covering them.

PA: A different artist. 

DB: Yes. If you could have someone do a cover of a DOWN song, and it could show up on your desk completed tomorrow, who would the artist be and what would the song be? 

PA: Man that is tough. That is a good question. A really good question. This is going to sound. I don’t know man. I don’t know if this is going to fit, and we are talking fantasy here?

DB: Of course.

PA: Fantasy land would be Soundgarden doing “Learn from My Mistakes”. 

DB: That would be pretty awesome. I didn’t even think of it. 

PA: “Bury Me in Smoke”. Why not, man?

DB: I was thinking Monster Magnet would just kill on “Bury Me in Smoke”. He has that 70’s howl. He’s got the stoner metal sensibility. A friend of mine mentioned it to me last night when I was talking to him about the question, and it just kind of clicked. But yeah, I think Soundgarden would be amazing. 

PA: Somebody doing “Nothing in Return”. Somebody dramatic, somebody good. That would be cool.

DB: Definitely.

PA: It’s a trippy song. 

DB: This might sound like an odd question, but it’s related to the whole idea of people covering songs. 

PA: Go for it.

DB: You covered for Mike Williams (of EYEHATEGOD) while he was getting liver surgery, right? 

PA: I’ve covered for him before. I covered for him in the early 90’s when he got busted for shoplifting. It’s not as unique as it seems, because I’ve done it before. 

DB: There’s two things I consider when looking at an accomplished band. There’s the people in it and the body of work they accrue, and I think both of them feed into the legacy of the band. Let’s say you had to, for some reason, step away from the band for an album and tour cycle. You’d still have your hand in it, but someone else steering the ship. A fill in as opposed to a replacement. 

PA: Which band?

DB: DOWN. 

PA: Ok.

DB: Is there anybody you could think of that you would trust to do, like you said, all the different voicings and styles and sell the songs. Who is the person you would ask if you needed someone to cover for you?

PA: Oh man, you know. Phew. Well, for a lot of different reasons I would probably ask first… Man, you know, I think Kyle Thomas would do a great job. It might be kind of an unexpected answer, but I think he could do a really good job. 

DB: He’s a great dude. And his vocals are really good. I wasn’t sure if it would be one of the guys in the band you’d get to do vocals, but now that you mention it. Despite it wasn’t my first thought, Kyle is probably the best answer I could come up with. 

PA: We do have history. Good history. We always have. When other people were talking shit, we were always friends. We were always tight. A lot of respect between us, you know.

DB: Any time I’ve talked with him, he’s always been really positive and respectful about you and your relationship. 

PA: He’s a really good dude. I love him and I’ve known him for so long now. At least …oh man, since we were 18 or 19. Yeah, man. I would just do it because he would sound great and it’s another New Orleans boy. Another New Orleans guy.

DB: That makes sense. To me, when you view it through that lens, it’s an interesting look of what you see in the music and direction you like in the band. 

PA: You see, with Kyle. If you put it like that, I can see where the answer to the question is. Kyle isn’t the first dude you thought of, because aside from one band that Kyle did, what’s it called, Levee or something.

DB: Floodgate.

PA: Floodgate. That’s it! See, that’s the body of work I’m talking about with what he could do in DOWN. 

DB: Yeah. I can definitely see that. I wasn’t sure if it would be one of the current guys. When Axl rose’s voice or Axl would give out, Duff would take over for him to finish the show. I just don’t know if I could see Pepper or Kirk playing and stepping in on vocals for a cycle if it came up. It’s a good answer. I like that. 

PA: Also to add, I would offer it to Kyle because I love the guy, and that’s a big part of it too. 

DB: You were talking before about how you’re putting more effort in. Do you think you’re happier than before? Is that one of the reasons you’re all clicking so well? What is it that had everything coalesce the way it did?

PA: I think when we’re focused on other things in life, and then we get the request for DOWN, we put the work in and we do it in this fashion where I think everybody has a better time. Put all of us on a bus and do a whole tour together or something like that, it can wear thin. We love each other. Oh god, we are brothers.

DB: But brothers fight. (laughs)

PA: Like you said, we’re all lead singers. Jimmy Bower is the captain of his own ship with Eyehategod, we all have our thing, so the dynamic is, I’ll say, so intense sometimes that it’s counteractive. But doing things the way we do these days I think we give each other enough room to breathe and live and we appreciate each other a whole lot more when we get together, get into the jam room, get on stage together, it’s much more an appreciation for each other, our talents, and what we bring to the table in DOWN. 

DB: I noticed that you, Pepper, and Kirk often travel with your spouses as well. I imagine normalizing your family life in an environment like that has to help. I know when I don’t do that, my life tends to come apart a bit. When I have that strong family connection, it makes a big difference for me. That said, you guys are out touring, so it’s a very different experience than mine. I know when I saw you guys in Vegas, I saw Kate and Robin and Jenny (partners of Phil, Kirk, and Pepper). There was a family feeling to it. There’s something about that that seemed to make things look particularly happy to me.

PA: Absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more. Kate works hard, man.

DB: She’s awesome.

PA: DOWN, you know, Kate’s doing her thing. Production management, doing what she does, she wears a lot of hats, does a lot of stuff. I got to say that the DOWN wives, they all step up, you know, help out. They do their thing. They do their part. I think once again when we can get together for a gig, two gigs, something like that, it makes the whole event of doing so much more celebratory and everybody does want to come. The wives for sure want to come. Kate’s always going to be working, but the wives all want to come. It’s a very festive atmosphere, and hey man, it’s the magic of doing singular shows or just a couple shows in a row, you know?

DB: Is that the direction DOWN is going? The shows I’ve seen you guys sign up for are all festivals. Is DOWN going to be more festival based, or are you thinking of doing short tours?

PA: I don’t know about that. I think right now, right now it’s what we’re doing. It would have to be a very mega tour that came along that said “Hey! We want specifically DOWN for x amount of weeks” or something like that. Especially if nothing else was going on. I’m sure we’d have to make sure our schedules were clear. All of us. Like I said, a massive tour or something like that might shake us out of our other individual responsibilities, or at least put them off.

DB: And you guys are all busy right now.

PA: But I don’t know man, don’t hold me to that man. This is all what you call hypothetical. 

DB: When I see DOWN on the list of a festival, I tend to look to see how it fits into my schedule, so I think that’s why it stands out to me. I keep wondering if it’s going to be part of an ongoing tour or one-off stuff right now, and then working from there. 

PA: Yeah. Probably fucking true. Probably just do some festivals here and there, but like I say though, doing shows and stuff? I don’t think anybody is overtly out loud saying “we’re not doing any tours.” It’s nothing like that. It would have to be the right tour that came along, so yeah, we’ll probably just do some fest shows.

DB: If you guys have a good dynamic right now, why mess with it if you can get out and do those short trips? It sucks about the cancellations in Vegas, but at the same time, I’m glad that you guys were able to close out the festival. Especially considering the show you guys put on. It was deserved.

PA: I appreciate that man. I’m with you. I wish Mercyful Fate could have played. God. What a spectacle, and what an awesome individual. King Diamond and his whole family and his whole band. What a bunch of fucking beautiful folks. So nice, so professional. And the King, talk about sounding good lately? The King is on point. Anyway, I appreciate what you say man. I just wanted to sing as good as I could. Everybody just wanted to lay those tunes down as good as we could man. Big ups to the production there. 

DB: The production was amazing. 

PA: Yeah man, and everyone was so helpful. They care about their product, man. They care about the bands and the show in general. Ups to them.

DB: I thought they did a great job on the details. As a photographer I was happy that they used smoke instead of haze. You could see and shoot through it, and it was part of the show as opposed to hiding the show. Sometimes it’s the little details that make a night and day difference. From my side of the stage anyway. 

PA: Well, I’d love to see some of the shots you took. 

DB: I’ll send them out to you. I appreciate the time you took with me. Thanks. 

PA: Thank you man.